today's sun page 21 (1 Viewer)

[old-mo]

(Quote) you wil never stop a determined thief, but slowing them down is the trick so they go try an easier target.(Unquote)

OH !!! that`s very nice...

Remind me never to go camping with you... Mate...

 

[PP Bear]

Just had a word with the Quartermaster and the good news is, I can supply some old military Mk6 Gasmasks at a very reasonable price

Picture of one type of robber

And here's some others.

 

[captain]

Re gas detector, I would think a carbon monoxide would do the trick, It detected Hydrogen gas in our motorhome when our leisure battery boiled over, Re alarm Iv'e modified a cheap car alarm that's got a the smallest domestic PIR I could buy fitted to it also the car alarm has doppler motion detectors either side of the front windows, so we can go to bed set the alarm and the whole of the front cab is protected!

That is unless you are Scottish and a naked burglar!

Captain

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[AMK]

Well, it is the Sun after all!!

 

[joner8888]

Just hide your stuff under where you sleep .
Make up a secret compartment where a thief would never find it.

I parked up in a car park in France and noticed 2 blokes watching me walk away so i went back, got out my cash , passport , cards , stood outside and made sure they could see me put it all in my pocket and walked off.

They drove off , probably thinking ---" These English do strange things"-- but i knew they knew there was nothing to nick.

 

[durhamahoy]

Mail online today carries the same story.
An expert anaesthetist does say RUBBISH you would need gas by the tanker load and a generator

Steve

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[stcyr]

Has anyone, ever, met and spoken to victims first hand who have the evidence?

Yes

 

[Jaws]

As said many times before and backed up by folk who are actually qualified to give an opinion, the balance between knocking out someone with gas and killing them is extremely fine.. Which is why there is a college specifically for anaesthetists and why it is such a specialised profession.
On top of which the cost of any gas in enough volume to do the job in even a small van would be far greater than thieves are likely to get back.
Are there any reports of gas being stolen ?
Are there any hospital reports ?
Given the time to recover from a full blown knock out is measured in days rather than minutes, why do the police never tell the victims they are not allowed to drive for a minimum of 24 hours ( this last is my supposition based on experience so could be wrong )

 

[Snowbird]

I do seem to recollect a funster who swore they had been gassed some time ago but cannot for the life of me remember who it was. Does anyone with a better memory bank know who it was. Maybe we could for once have a first hand account of this phenomenon.

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[cliffanger]

Preferably a dog with a gas mask.

But my dog's got no nose............

 

[cliffanger]

Yes

and....................?

 

[Scout]

S

But my dog's got no nose............

How does it smell

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[cliffanger]

S


How does it smell

BLOODY AWFUL !!!!!

 

[Tootles]

I do seem to recollect a funster who swore they had been gassed some time ago but cannot for the life of me remember who it was. Does anyone with a better memory bank know who it was. Maybe we could for once have a first hand account of this phenomenon.

Maybe this chap? He has a condition known as 'CS Eye'.

A 'new user' came on one day to say he had been gassed by his own propane.......Much derision, (nothing new there). He didn't post again.

 

[Movinon]

I keep reading threads where people are concerned that cab doors are locked to avoid robbery. I just wonder how many people know how easy certain van doors are to open with a sharpened screwdriver? the thieves know that pushing a hole through the thin tin on the door in a certain place allows them to lever the lock open in seconds almost in silence

many commercial fleets fitted protector plates to stop this

you wil never stop a determined thief, but slowing them down is the trick so they go try an easier target

Mail online today carries the same story.
An expert anaesthetist does say RUBBISH you would need gas by the tanker load and a generator

Steve

It is also possible to gain access by removing the rubber strip separating the front side windows of some vans. As for the gas, I imagine that gas filched from a facility in eastern europe would not be reported and that using a pressurised container would provide enough pressure to force it into vents if a thief was prepared. Just guessing.

I am very sceptical as to the likelihood and practicalities of gassing attacks. It does seem that an easier route to riches would be to go to Barcelona and nick a handbag. However, simply deriding such reports as ridiculous without any actual hard evidence (an attacker caught with his equipment would be nice) that they are a fantasy is not really in our interests. Perhaps it is best viewed as a reminder that unless you want the risk of a holiday ruined and the wife in tears motorhome security should not be a low priority.

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[Jaws]

Volume of gas required to be effective in a box of 25 cubic metres equates to ( near as dammit is ) oddly enough a tad under 30 cubic metres.
And that equates lord knows how many large ( as in the 47 litre ) bottles

47 Litres = 0.047 Cubic Meter

You can cheqk the figures for your self at http://www.asknumbers.com/liter-to-cubic-meter.aspx

 

[SMB]

Quote from the Daily Mail article re gassing in motorhomes:

The Royal College of Anaesthetists believes it would be impossible. It has issued a statement saying: ‘Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor.’

I'll go with them...

 

[Scout]

BLOODY AWFUL !!!!!

BOOM BOOM

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[eddie]

I supply more motorhome security equipment than anyone else in the Country, Gas attacks simply do not happen. Van Bitz will sell you a gas alarm that will detect narcotic gasses, as well as propane (of which a leak, is a more realistic and dangerous gas hazard)

The proof that these attacks is all over this and other forums and has been done to death. Ultimately, if the Police think that some one has been rendered unconscious by the illegal introduction of a narcotic substance, and ambulance would called, the victims would be taken to hospital for toxicology reports and observation.

Not simply told to drive off and continue their holiday.

 

[Movinon]

I supply more motorhome security equipment than anyone else in the Country, Gas attacks simply do not happen. Van Bitz will sell you a gas alarm that will detect narcotic gasses, as well as propane (of which a leak, is a more realistic and dangerous gas hazard)

The proof that these attacks is all over this and other forums and has been done to death. Ultimately, if the Police think that some one has been rendered unconscious by the illegal introduction of a narcotic substance, and ambulance would called, the victims would be taken to hospital for toxicology reports and observation.

Not simply told to drive off and continue their holiday.

I really must point out to you that your own literature says otherwise. Your manual page 19:

Link Removed

"We are constantly being asked about the threat of people being ‘gassed’ in their motorcaravans whilst
they sleep. We have tried to establish what exactly occurs in these attacks and have come to the
following conclusions.
The frequency of the attacks is less prolific than the general public seem to believe, and the length of the attack is nowhere near as long as most people think. We have heard the same stories repeated over and over again and this leads to the assumption that the attacks happen all the time.
This also leaves people with huge misconceptions regarding the type of attack. If the gas used has a
sufficient narcotic effect to render the occupants unconscious or in an extremely deep sleep, one would
have to question how the thieves safely enter the vehicle and rob the occupants without falling asleep
themselves. Reports suggest that narcotic gasses are used which appear to have a cumulative effect in
that it takes some time to reach the point rendering the victim inoperative. Therefore, if you were asleep
after breathing the gas, you would remain asleep through things that would normally wake you up.
There is sufficient evidence for some people to believe that such attacks do exist and do threaten their
health and safety, so a gas detector can offer peace of mind."

Now I appreciate that it is good business to sell a product for which there is a demand, even if you don't see the need for that product in reality, but saying that the frequency of attacks isn't very great is not the same thing as saying that attacks don't happen. As to how the perpetrators avoid becoming victims I would suggest they use gas masks. Perhaps it's time to rewrite that section?

That aside, it would be much more useful to know what you did to establish the facts of possible gassing incidents for yourselves. Did you actually talk to any victims or any police involved? To insurance companies?

 

[cliffanger]

BOOM BOOM

On the same silly joke theme (I know at first thought it doesn't fit with this thread but.....) - did you hear what the number zero said to the number eight?

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[eddie]

We are a business, we simply cannot get into arguments with our customers that believe that they have been involved, so we sit on the fence in our literature But as you have quoted we say

There is sufficient evidence for some people to believe that such attacks do exist and do threaten theirhealth and safety, so a gas detector can offer peace of mind."

What more would you like us to say?

Your "cut n paste" quote misses the next paragraph that goes on to explain the benefit of the gas alarm for gas leaks in a motorhome"

I have spoke to thousands of people and organisations about this over the last couple of decades.

Lets start with the basics.

• No one has been admitted to hospital, having been rendered unconscious during or as part of a robbery.
  
• The Royal College of Anaesthetists say that such attacks don't happen
• No one has every been arrested with the equipment
• No one has died

The last one is more relevant than you think. Qualified Anaesthetists spend years studying their Profession. In a hospital, in controlled environment, with a trained professional monitoring the whole thing, sadly people do not wake from a general anaesthetic. It is a calculated risk, that is part of surgery ergo: Anaesthesia.

However, Movinon, if you would sleep happier at night, knowing that you have a gas alarm in your motorhome, that will pick up a range of narcotic gases, I'm your man if you need to buy one ;-)

I leave in ten days time for the South of France, with a view that we will meander down, needing to be in St Tropez by Saturday afternoon. We will sleep on the motorway services, as they were intended to be, and are used, by thousands every night without a moments hesitation. For the record, as I have an RV, by Federal law a gas detector device is fitted by the manufacturer, mine actually shuts the LPG down in the event of a trigger, but I don't have a narcotic gas detector fitted.

 

[Fireman Sam]

It is also possible to gain access by removing the rubber strip separating the front side windows of some vans. As for the gas, I imagine that gas filched from a facility in eastern europe would not be reported and that using a pressurised container would provide enough pressure to force it into vents if a thief was prepared. Just guessing.

I am very sceptical as to the likelihood and practicalities of gassing attacks. It does seem that an easier route to riches would be to go to Barcelona and nick a handbag. However, simply deriding such reports as ridiculous without any actual hard evidence (an attacker caught with his equipment would be nice) that they are a fantasy is not really in our interests. Perhaps it is best viewed as a reminder that unless you want the risk of a holiday ruined and the wife in tears motorhome security should not be a low priority.

You think they use tear gas?

 

[rangi]

I posted that I got gassed. It was a 'orrible experience!

I wuz in ASDA and this woman let off a series of "pooofffs" I'm telling yu, I 'ad to get out the aisle pretty damm quick. Thinking back on it I should 'ave phoned Greenpeace, perhaps they would have scaled her and 'ung banners off 'er boobs

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[Movinon]

We are a business, we simply cannot get into arguments with our customers that believe that they have been involved, so we sit on the fence in our literature But as you have quoted we say

What more would you like us to say?

Your "cut n paste" quote misses the next paragraph that goes on to explain the benefit of the gas alarm for gas leaks in a motorhome"

I have spoke to thousands of people and organisations about this over the last couple of decades.

Lets start with the basics.

• No one has been admitted to hospital, having been rendered unconscious during or as part of a robbery.
  
• The Royal College of Anaesthetists say that such attacks don't happen
• No one has every been arrested with the equipment
• No one has died

The last one is more relevant than you think. Qualified Anaesthetists spend years studying their Profession. In a hospital, in controlled environment, with a trained professional monitoring the whole thing, sadly people do not wake from a general anaesthetic. It is a calculated risk, that is part of surgery ergo: Anaesthesia.

However, Movinon, if you would sleep happier at night, knowing that you have a gas alarm in your motorhome, that will pick up a range of narcotic gases, I'm your man if you need to buy one ;-)

I leave in ten days time for the South of France, with a view that we will meander down, needing to be in St Tropez by Saturday afternoon. We will sleep on the motorway services, as they were intended to be, and are used, by thousands every night without a moments hesitation. For the record, as I have an RV, by Federal law a gas detector device is fitted by the manufacturer, mine actually shuts the LPG down in the event of a trigger, but I don't have a narcotic gas detector fitted.

I was simply querying the apparent inconsistency between your categorical statement that gas attacks do not happen with the less than categorical wording of your manual.

Well it's one thing to administer gas and quite another to actually gain access to a motorhome that's been properly protected. I sleep very well at night and you'll be happy to hear that that is in no small part to the installation of your excellent alarm. Using gas or not, once a potential villain sees the flashing blue lights hopefully he will attack the van next door owned by the bloke who thought it was all a joke, and went to bed too pissed to remember to lockup. So long as it's not a Funster of course.

 

[DuxDeluxe]

I posted that I got gassed. It was a 'orrible experience!

I wuz in ASDA and this woman let off a series of "pooofffs" I'm telling yu, I 'ad to get out the aisle pretty damm quick. Thinking back on it I should 'ave phoned Greenpeace, perhaps they would have scaled her and 'ung banners off 'er boobs

Aahh....... raising the editorial tones again?

I was simply querying the apparent inconsistency between your categorical statement that gas attacks do not happen with the less than categorical wording of your manual.

Well it's one thing to administer gas and quite another to actually gain access to a motorhome that's been properly protected. I sleep very well at night and you'll be happy to hear that that is in no small part to the installation of your excellent alarm. Using gas or not, once a potential villain sees the flashing blue lights hopefully he will attack the van next door owned by the bloke who thought it was all a joke, and went to bed too pissed to remember to lockup. So long as it's not a Funster of course.

Eddie when you sold me the strike back alarm a few weeks ago, I was persuaded to go for the extra sirens. Found out the hard way that they are indeed very, very loud. Just as we needed. We set off the alarm by mistake the other day and had to run for the keys. With a perimeter alarm like that set, any attempt at gassing us and breaking in to nick the moth-eaten white fiver remaining in my wallet (it was one of Shifty's the last time he got a round in ) will be doomed to failure. Glad we had it installed, even if I did manage to leave a key fob there....

 

[eddie]

That is another "strange thing" People who are gassed, never appear to have or have an adequate alarm system! I did post a first hand experience after my holiday last year, again, the non alarmed caravan, opened, riffled and robbed, whilst Mum, Dad and two little toddlers fast asleep. That would have actually been a good example of a theft where one would think that they must of been "gassed"

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[Tootles]

The dog is the best answer, or the wife.
Having been professionally trained in the dark arts of escape and evasion, I cannot get within three feet of the wife's purse without her waking up. Even by adopting the cunning camouflage of a motorhome wardrobe, and slowly moving across the floor, I cannot defeat her. One eye opens, and this "wahatdiellaryoudoininawardrobe" emits.

 

[PP Bear]

As said many times before and backed up by folk who are actually qualified to give an opinion, the balance between knocking out someone with gas and killing them is extremely fine.. Which is why there is a college specifically for anaesthetists and why it is such a specialised profession.
On top of which the cost of any gas in enough volume to do the job in even a small van would be far greater than thieves are likely to get back.
Are there any reports of gas being stolen ?
Are there any hospital reports ?
Given the time to recover from a full blown knock out is measured in days rather than minutes, why do the police never tell the victims they are not allowed to drive for a minimum of 24 hours ( this last is my supposition based on experience so could be wrong )

Sorry Jaws I have to disagree

Have you ever wiffed a pair of Tootles socks phewy

Hang em by any open window and it'd be enuff to knock out the most hardened Scottish whiskey drinking van'er

 

[Tootles]

YOU SWINE.....You promised never to tell!!

I would never have left them in the first place, but Doris screamed "Quick, Bear Hats Here!".

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