Reverse Gear Recall (1 Viewer)

[WillH]

Well, thats it, took Milly (the motorhome) to the dealer today to have a new reverse gear fitted, perhaps new mounts as well. It will take a few days so once I get her back I shall let you know how we got on.

Interestingly, the dealer has already carried out one recall that only involved mounts and this apparently worked. He doesn't know why some are getting the gear changed as well.

The dealer has a steep ramp at the back of his yard so I shall be trialling the mods before I leave the site. Here's hoping!

Rgds
Bill

 

[DESCO]

I think it's just luck what they do first from what iv'e read. Seems they are attempting to shut people up as cheaply as possible or
Divide and conquer

Sort some out so they can say they are doing something.

Hope yours is one that works

Personally I have lost all faith in Sevel made vans would never buy another, this time I decided on a Ford, not perfect but it works.


Dave:thumb::thumb:

 

[M&L]

Ours was done last week with the new lower reverse gear, engine mountings and new clutch. Fiat's official term for this work is Intervention B where as the engine mountings only is apparently called Intervention A.
Good result with our van as the thump on start up has completely gone and there was no judder when I reversed onto the drive which is slightly uphill and on gravel.
Even going forwards it seemed like a different van but we will have to wait untill we go to France at the end of the month when it's fully loaded to see if has really worked.
I think that it depends how much you nag them as to which work you get done.

Mike

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[WillH]

"I think that it depends how much you nag them as to which work you get done."

Hi Mike, I didn't nag them much at all, only one letter. I still don't think it is mush of a problem, at least not on our van. In all other respects it is great to drive, even going to the dealer today, not hanging about, I managed an indicated 29.9 m.p.g. My last car couldn't manage that without the caravan!

If the mods work, as I expect them to, the van should be perfect!

Rgds
Bill

 

[bigfoot]

I think you need to check out the threads on MHF and Out and about online.
This shambles has been goin ong for some time now. I have been involved with it when my clutch on a new Autotrail cooked after only 200 miles.
I still have the thump and although clutch replaced I have lost all confidence in the vehicle.
Now Fiat are saying that there is no problem with the 3litre model.
Pah a pox on their lousy engineering!

 

[WillH]

I have been following all the threads on all the websites, and in the magazines, for over 15 months now. Even been following the Italian sites. I still think either the problem is overated or, not all the 2.3's suffer the same problem. The 3 litre does not have any judder problem, nor the 2.2 that I know of.

I have over 10k on the clock now and the clutch is still good. Still think it is a good base vehicle, a very large percentage of all new motorhomes are built on it not to mention the legions of white vans.

Wait till I get it back and give it a trial, if its fixed, its fixed, if not, back to Fiat.

It's not the first vehicle to suffer problems, remember the beautiful Triumph Stag, some of them only managed 5k before the clutch went, flywheel problem! Worst I ever had at work were Ford Transits with sliding doors, after 2 years they fell off, alright once you knew it was going to happen but a bit of a shock first time.

Rgds
Bill

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[scotjimland]

not to mention the legions of white vans.

l

but the 'legions' are not Fiat ..

New van registrations Sep 08

Ford 10,582 = 28%

Fiat 1,240 = 3.99%

see attached
The information on these pages has been compiled by the SMMT from UK commercial vehicle registration data. Full reports are available for download from their website at SMMT UK: Motor Industry Sustainability, Competitiveness, Legislation, Technology, Globalisation, Retail Distribution, Education

 

[DESCO]

I have been following all the threads on all the websites, and in the magazines, for over 15 months now. Even been following the Italian sites. I still think either the problem is overated or, not all the 2.3's suffer the same problem. The 3 litre does not have any judder problem, nor the 2.2 that I know of.
Rgds
Bill

What sites have you been reading, I have seen plenty of 3 litre owners reporting trouble only to be told it's their imagination, when they have had clutches burn out, some imagination!!!! I have now decided that Fiat no longer tell the truth, or have any idea of what truth is and can't be relied upon for any thing they say.


Dave:thumb::thumb:

 

[bigfoot]

The 3 litre does not have any judder problem, nor the 2.2 that I know of.
You now know of mine!!!!

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[WillH]

"The 3 litre does not have any judder problem, nor the 2.2 that I know of.
You now know of mine!!!! "

So what mods have been done or have Fiat not responded to your complaint.

Rgds
Bill

 

[DESCO]

If as you say you have been following the posts on various sites you would know that Bigfoot according to Fiat does not have a problem with his 3 litre and they intend doing nothing.


Dave:thumb::thumb:

 

[WillH]

Exactly, so what is he doing about it. If, following the threads, it has the problem, then something needs to be done.

All I did was write one letter to Fiat, copied to Swift and my dealer with covering letters. I took no other action. Fiat wrote back and gave me a case number. Swift wrote back stating that they inderstooed Fiat were looking at the problem and were supportive. My dealer didn't bother to write, he phoned, not in a good mood, I reckon 60% of the new vans on his forecourt were Fiats. He was not supportive.

Next, Fiat invite me to visit dealer and have van inspected. Following that Fiat phoned from Italy to arrange a new reverse gear recall. Dealer phoned to book van in, story to date.

If a van has a problem, it gets inspected. Should the problem manifest at the dealer Fiat recall it.

How many people have written a letter and copied it as above? Please let me know.

Rgds
Bill

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[DESCO]

I can't say maybe Bigfoot will answer, but from what I read on forums they are not even getting a chance to visit, and have fault seen, just being told there is no problem.
I do not have personal knowledge only interest as I have a Ford.



Dave:thumb::thumb:

 

[WillH]

This is the problem Dave, a lot of shouting but nothing being done. In the 15 months I have owned my van I have seen dozens of others on sites. The only person that ever spoke to me about it was a guy driving a car in Kings Lynn. No-one has ever approached me on site though I have spoken to 5 other owners, two said their van 'rattled a bit' going backwards.

So, is the problem being blown out of proportion, or are only a very few vans affected?

Rgds
Bill

 

[jhorsf]

if as you say you have been keeping up with the postings on most forums you would not have asked the question above unless it was your intention to be contraversialhardhat

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[Munchie]

I have the 2.3 6 speed with the judder problem. I e mailed Fiat UK once from there they have arranged for my dealer to fit the new engine mounts and tie bar which improved the problem no end. However on a steep hill it still juddered so I contacted my dealer who phoned Fiat and it went in today for the clutch change and lower ratio reverse gear.
So from my point of view Fiat service has been excellent. I am not saying this to upset anyone but can only speak as I find.

 

[WillH]

Sorry, but I am not trying to be controversial, just trying to get things into perspective and better understand things myself. It is my opinion, shared by many others, that Fiat have made an error with their design, and/or build.

However, my personal experience in dealing with them has been satisfactory, so far. As an engineer myself I do understand the difficulties they face, including costs.

Having had the flywheel on a 33,000 h.p. engine disintergrate once I know from bitter experience that not everything works as it should, first time.

What I am trying to get across is that not every one of the sevel produced chassis displays this problem. Some seem to suffer more than others, some not at all and some so profoundly they appear to be undriveable. Why?

As they are all assembly line produced they should, in engineering terms, all present the same characteristics and they don't. This tells me there is more to it than a design error.

Not all drivers operate their vehicles the same way, some expect more from them than others, and some drivers can extract more from identical vehicles than others. I myself have a relatively gentle style, I expect clutch and brakes to last for many years. Others I know can burn out a clutch in only 30 or 40k miles.

So, I am happy to let Fiat do their thing and fix my van. What I can't figure out is why some people have had a negative response with Fiat saying there is nothing wrong.

I'm sorry if I came across the wrong way but it is puzzling me that there appears to be an inconsistancy in the Fiat response. Their customer service to me has been exemplary to date.

Lets hear from more members on their response from Fiat.

Rgds
Bill:Sad:

 

[derekfaeberwick]

Not all drivers operate their vehicles the same way, some expect more from them than others, and some drivers can extract more from identical vehicles than others. I myself have a relatively gentle style, I expect clutch and brakes to last for many years. Others I know can burn out a clutch in only 30 or 40k miles.

These vans are designed to be abused by 'professional' white van man types, not to be mollycoddled.Therefore it appears to be a failure. Minor recalls are unwanted but not unexpected with new models but 'juddergate' can hardly be called minor and the Sevel response would certainly deter me from buying one.

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[jhorsf]

This is the problem Dave, a lot of shouting but nothing being done. In the 15 months I have owned my van I have seen dozens of others on sites. The only person that ever spoke to me about it was a guy driving a car in Kings Lynn. No-one has ever approached me on site though I have spoken to 5 other owners, two said their van 'rattled a bit' going backwards.

So, is the problem being blown out of proportion, or are only a very few vans affected?

Rgds
Bill

so you have asked 5 others about the vans so out of the 6 including yours you should be able to work for yourself that the very few vans in your very limited personal survey is a piddling 50% that need some attention, how may out of 6 does it need in your oppinion before it is not and i quote above" BLOWN OUT OF ALL PROPORTION"

 

[Neckender]

I have an 08--650Trigano Tribute which as a mild judder in reverse, it has not suffered with water through the scuttle, or any other faults it runs and drives absolutley beautifully, fuel consumption is very good and I would deffinatley buy another. Fiat UK have been brill I only phoned them once with the judder complaint and my vehicle went in last week for engine mounts only. When it was completed i tried it on dealers steep drive and there was still a slight judder but better than it was originally. I told our dealer that it still juddered slightly and they rebooked it in for Sept for new clutch, reverse gear and pipe. Also whilst I was at the dealers they told me to take my log book in as on there computer my warranty started from the day our van left Fiat to go to Trigano, which was Sep 07, and they told me that I would be loosing 6months warranty. So I took my log book in and they have altered warranty on their records to start from March 08. Dealer Platts garage Stoke on Trent, and Fiat UK have been great, well done to both.

John.

PS hope all of you get yours sorted too.

 

[david price]

I have a fiat 160,clutch went just under 10000 miles.Fiat were a waste of time.They paid a small part of the bill and it cost me over 700 quid.I asked them to keep parts so i could get them checked but parts disappeared?Never had a clutch go in over 25 years of driving.
I also have a fiat 120 for business with nearly 20k on the clock.
The way they handled my case i will never buy a fiat again and neither will my business.We have had 2 other vans in the past 4 months,a vauxhall and a ford.They would have been fiat if they had treated me right because they do drive well when going forwards.
The works van judders and so does the motorhome although alot less than it used to.You can reduce the judder quite alot with the right revs or just on tickover but both are still to fast when in tight corners or limited vision.
I am having some t shirts printed which simply say,ASK ME WHY YOU SHOULD NOT BUY FIAT.If anyone is interested let me know.
Dave

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[WillH]

Hi Dave, this is exactly what I mean, not every one has a problem and those that do have a problem seem to have different things going wrong. When you read all the postings some people get good customer service and others miserable, why?

I can't figure it out. There is something wrong with the vans (some of them) but what is it?

Rgds
Bill

 

[scotjimland]

Hi Dave, this is exactly what I mean, not every one has a problem and those that do have a problem seem to have different things going wrong. When you read all the postings some people get good customer service and others miserable, why?

I can't figure it out. There is something wrong with the vans (some of them) but what is it?

Rgds
Bill

Just a thought, has anyone considered or compared the GVW of the vans affected and how heavy they are loaded ?

They may all be on the same chassis but the weights must vary enormously. I would have thought a van with a 4t GVW fully laden is more likely to have clutch judder than a 3t van lighlty laden.

Bear in mind, many white van men run almost empty or with bulky light loads.. few run to the max whereas many motorhomes run close to max GVW.

jim

 

[DESCO]

Just a thought, has anyone considered or compared the GVW of the vans affected and how heavy they are loaded ?

They may all be on the same chassis but the weights must vary enormously. I would have thought a van with a 4t GVW fully laden is more likely to have clutch judder than a 3t van lighlty laden.

Bear in mind, many white van men run almost empty or with bulky light loads.. few run to the max whereas many motorhomes run close to max GVW.

jim

Have taken quite an interest in reading posts they seem to go across all weights, from a high top owned by freelance photo journalist Andy Stothert, works mainly for MMM who has done a lot of work on the problem and this destroyed a gearbox reversing up a hill to avoid lorry coming the other way, weight about 3300 I believe, right up to 4t motorhomes.

Just on a point of interest on a brief check today although Fiat say there is no problem with 3 litre, I can find about 15 with problems who Fiat won't even look at.


Dave:thumb::thumb:

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[scotjimland]

Have taken quite an interest in reading posts they seem to go across all weights, from a high top owned by freelance photo journalist Andy Stothert, works mainly for MMM who has done a lot of work on the problem and this destroyed a gearbox reversing up a hill to avoid lorry coming the other way, weight about 3300 I believe, right up to 4t motorhomes.

Just on a point of interest on a brief check today although Fiat say there is no problem with 3 litre, I can find about 15 with problems who Fiat won't even look at.


Dave:thumb::thumb:

Hi

but the issue is mainly with motorhomes, panel vans are by and large not reporting this problem so it would seem to me that the extra running weight is the culprit ..

A heavy duty clutch and lower reverse gear ratio would surely solve the problem.. perhaps the 3lt vans already have this ?

jim

 

[DESCO]

Hi

but the issue is mainly with motorhomes, panel vans are by and large not reporting this problem so it would seem to me that the extra running weight is the culprit ..

A heavy duty clutch and lower reverse gear ratio would surely solve the problem.. perhaps the 3lt vans already have this ?

jim

It does seem to be the reverse gear that is the main problem it is higher than first and to control the reverse speed to be able to manoeuvre on grass or gravel or steep slope it don't work. They first tried engine mounts and stabiliser bar what they call stage one. Then its a lower gear and clutch, problem seems to be they can't fit a low enough gear in the existing box.


Dave:thumb::thumb:

 

[Munchie]

Yep mine is in now for the heavy duty clutch and lower reverse gear.

I should point out this is NOT a recall, you have to report the problem to Fiat and modifications go from there.

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[DESCO]

Yep mine is in now for the heavy duty clutch and lower reverse gear.

I should point out this is NOT a recall, you have to report the problem to Fiat and modifications go from there.

No they wont put a recall out as it would cost them too much, this way it don't get mass publicity, and they are tring to avoid that like the plague.


Dave:thumb::thumb:

 

[WillH]

I think the weight may be the difference, my van is 3050 kg. unladen and probably runs around 3400 kg. when we are on the move.

The gearing on 1st gear is very low, when driving round a site I can use 2nd and still move at only 5mph. The new reverse is, I believe still higher but this may well be okay.

Was visiting a newspaper printers toady and noticed their van was a Peugot (sevel), their driver said they had no problem and his loading bay was slightly sloped. However, he would mainly be empty when reversing up to it.

Waiting for the garage to call me tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for your posts, we are getting some interesting comments.

Rgds
Bill

 

[DESCO]

I was talking to my friendly Fiat main agent last week and he volunteered the info' that the 3 Litre models have a problem with the final drive (diff') and were fixing loads on recall.

Looking round forums just now have just found this post what next.



Dave

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